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Robin Radar Systems protects airports from birds and drones and secures high-profile events and prisons from drones too. Founder and CEO, Siete Hamminga, sees the threat of small flying objects growing larger by the day.

 

Q: Gatwick Airport was shut down for days and suffered damages of £50 million last December. All because of a €600 drone seen flying above the airport. If your technology had been used could this have been avoided?

A: That’s always difficult to say with these types of incidents. We certainly could have given earlier warning that a drone was approaching (or took off). And also, because we visualise the drone’s flight path in real-time, we could have indicated the intention of the drone too. So you’d have been able to understand the drone pilot’s intention.

Q: That’s what you did for the Nuclear Security Summit (NSS) in The Hague in 2014, right?

A: We didn’t actually protect that event (we didn't have a product ready yet then) but we have protected the G-7, G-20, and other high-profile security events since.

That Nuclear Security Summit was however the catalyst for the Dutch Government to seriously consider how to protect against the threat of drones. And what they did was to organise a competition, calling on industry to come up with counter-drone solutions.

We subsequently won that competition with our Drone Detection Radar, ELVIRA®.

Q: Drones are small, you can’t see them, and they don’t make much noise. In other words, they’re hard to detect. How do you detect them with your radar?

A: Yes, it’s a difficult problem. If you try to follow a drone with your eyes, it actually disappears as a dot on the horizon already at just a few hundred metres. So different technologies have been applied, and one technology which proves to be effective is radar.

I should say though that a normal radar won’t be able to see a drone. And that's because of how a normal radar works; it simply shouts (transmits a radio signal) and listens for the echo (receives the reflected radio signal back - or not). That works very well for ships and aircraft where the radar receives a lot of reflected signal back. But with a small drone; it makes only a tiny reflection, so a normal radar just can’t pick it up.

We specialise in making radar systems that operate at extreme high resolution and are exceptionally good at filtering out noise. The result is that we are able to detect small drones with our radar.

Q: So, you’ve actually developed a unique system to detect and track drones. But then what? Do you shutdown the airspace or how does that work?

A: We actually focus on what we do best - which is built the best radars in the world. So we don’t actually shut down airspace or take drones down ourselves. We deliver our radars mostly to system integrators and defence and security companies. Then they combine our radar with cameras and other counter drone technology, including technology that do neutralise drones and take them down.

Q: So, the military can take such a drone down. But I can imagine that other organisations want to do that too. How does it work then if they want to do that but aren't in a position to?

A: There are a number of challenges in that area actually. First, you need an effective technology of course. But how do you actually get the drone out of the sky? Because it’s not easy. And a big component of the challenge is collateral damage. For example, there are techniques you can use to disturb the drone signal so that the drone falls out of the air. But in doing so it’s possible you’ll disturb other (sometimes critical) communications.

Q: What about birds of prey? Can they take drones out?

A: The Dutch Police (and later also the French) have conducted experiments using eagles to take drones down. That might sound funny at first but there’s an important reason why it really was a good idea. And that’s to do with the collateral damage. As you can imagine, there are often situations where many people are gathered together. You obviously can’t start shooting drones out of the sky above all those people. So the eagle sees the drone as it’s prey, catches it, and takes it away from all those people. One of the drawbacks though is that it’s hard to operationalise. You can’t just continually ‘man’ the whole of the Netherlands with eagles. So that’s one reason that project stopped.

Other products that can take drones out are ballistic nets. There’s a company in Delft for example, called Delft Dynamics, that supplies drones that can shoot a net over bad drones. There’s also a company in England, Open Works Engineering, that has a net cannon. That allows you to shoot down drones from the ground. Both products bring the drones down with a parachute for safety.

Q: Drones are a growing problem, for sure. And there are a number of ways of taking drones down. But what’s the legislation on that actually?

A: Legislation tends to trail behind when it comes to new innovations. But there is at least some legislation; what you may and may not do as a hobbyist and as a commercial drone operator. There are no-fly-zones and they’re thinking about possible registration of drones and operators, as they are in the United Kingdom and in the United States. There are also rules for how high you can fly as well as where and when.

And then there's the rules for downing drones. And that’s really lagging behind. Because even if you have a fantastic method for catching a drone safely, you’re still not allowed to actually do it. At the moment that’s limited to military and law enforcement, and even then there’s still restrictions.

Q: Exactly. In some cases, like at Schiphol Airport, you have a no-drone-zone around the airport. But often people just aren’t aware of that. How can we spread awareness?

A: There’s actually been an awareness campaign going for some time now (at least in the Netherlands) which informs the public about the no-drone-zones. There’s also interactive maps available where you see exactly where you can and can’t fly with your drone.

Q: Another big problem is drones being used at prisons to smuggle drugs and weapons to prisoners inside. How do you deal with that?

A: There’s a big focus on the disruption drones can bring to airports right now. But indeed they’re also used to smuggle drugs and weapons into prisons. But it’s not just prisons, they’re also turning up at critical infrastructure sites and at car manufacturer’s test sites, for example. So our market is actually much more than just airports.

Q: And what happens when you’re protecting an event, like the G-7 or G-20, and a drone causes people to be injured or even killed? Who’s responsible?

A: The one who carried out the attack is responsible of course! But in terms of who’s liable… Well, naturally, it’s our job as technology leader, to not only point out the possibilities of our technology but also the limits. Radar can’t see behind or through buildings, for example. We communicate the limitations of technology very clearly with all our customers. You should understand that there’s not one single technology that can provide complete cover. Wearing a bulletproof vest doesn't mean nobody dies of gunshot wounds anymore. So, every technology has its limitations. It’s our responsibility to communicate openly and realistically about that with our customers.

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This interview was originally recorded in the Dutch language for the Dutch Ondernemer (Entrepreneur) Podcast ‘Wake Up Call’. You can listen to the original recording here. This article was written based on a translation of the edited transcription.